Militaria Forums - Refuge of the Impotent

Lies, insults, anger and stupidity, it's all there...

This is not about ALL forum members, many of which are sane, reasonable people. It's about those special few. Your know who you are, so if the shoe fits....

I'm a member of four militaria forums and visit three of them occasionally, and one frequently. Over the past few years I couldn't help but notice an unfortunate trend taking place in these forums. It seems that they have become a "hangout" for people who know little, have strong opinions (usually wrong) and too much spare time on their hands. Usually these guys don't use their own names but hide under a made up "user" name. Bacause of the anonymity, they feel they can say anything they want with impunity, and spare nothing in voicing their views. This gives them a feeling of power, which fuels their desire to post more and more. (By the way, I use my own name when I post on a forum).

For the first time in their life they can say what they want and get away with it. No one can interrupt them while they post their thoughts. And if someone replys to their posts with a negative comment or tries to defend themself from attack, too late, they've already got their trash out there, and besides any reply just gives them fuel to post more of their trash.

Being anonymous on a forum creates the perfect medium to promote a malicious agenda. Whether it be to discredit someone or something, create doubt or mistrust, "get even", or simply "stir the pot", it's perfect. They can shoot while hiding in the dark.

It seems that forums can create a kind of "pack" or mob mentality in some people. One guy will post something negative about something or someone... and wham!, all of a sudden a bunch of others get on the band wagon and start posting trash about the same thing. It doesn't matter if they know anything about the subject, they still chime in with some trash. And the nastier the dialogue gets, the better they like it.

I've done some informal "research" on these people and have noticed something that I found interesting. It seems that the ones who are the most negative and vindictive, are the ones who post things the most. Some of them have thousands of posts on the forums... mostly negative. There are other reasonable members who do a lot of posts, but the negative guys seem to over power them. If you search the militaria forums you will find that a small number of members do most of the negative postings. The same names pop up over and over again. There should be a name for people you are always posting negative things. I was thinking, maybe, "neggers"?

Here's a little anecdote about what can happen in a forum. It wasn't a militaria forum, but it shows the "pack" mentality in action.

Have you seen the info-mercials on TV for the Sham-wow? It's a kind of ''super chamois'', and you'll remember Vince the spokesman. He's kind of a street smart, fast talking, skinny little guy on speed. I like him. I was interested in this product because it looked really great in the ads, so I went on line to do some research and saw somethng interesting... to me anyway. First I found some reviews of it by some ''car buffs'' who use it after washing their expensive sports cars. Overall they really liked it and felt it did a good job.... ok, so far, so good. I then checked a few other sources and they were all pretty positive about it. Then I happened to stumble on to a ''Forum''. This was the interesting part.... almost without exception the forum members ripped it a new one. They didn't like it, it was a con-job, couldn't be any good, the wouldn't buy anything ''Vince'' was selling, etc. etc.. Problem is, not one of these bozos had even used one! They all admitted it... Morons! I sat back and thought for a moment. ''It's deja vu all over again''.

The same thing happens on the militaria forums. Shoot your mouth off whether you know what your talking about or not seems to be the order of the day. Take the smallest thing and blow it up all out of proportion, create a "feeding frenzy" and hope it can be sustained. Then sit back and enjoy the show. Pathetic! Get a life people!

The sad part is that the so-called "moderators" of these forums let this kind of thing go on. Instead of doing their job of "moderating" what is said, they just let these people get away with murder. There is one subject however, that is strictly verboten. Don't you dare criticize the forum itself. I know of one person who, upon joining a big militaria forum, found that many of the areas were closed to him. Seems you had to be a member of some kind of special club to get into those areas. He posted a comment saying he was disappointed and thought this "smelled of elitism". The next day received a heated email from a moderator telling him his post was deleted and his membership had been revolked. He sent me a copy of the email and it was one of the foulest, most vulgar things I have ever read, just loaded with curses and insults. If the sender had said those things to him face to face, he would probably have gotten a sock on the nose for his trouble. And this person is supposed to moderate....

So the bottom line is this. Use the forums, read, post and enjoy. But cast a critical eye on what you read, and don't take everything you see as gospel. You have to learn to seperate the facts from the fiction. Above all, when posting something, know what you're talking about and try to keep it friendly! I hope this article hasn't made me sound like a negger...

Bob Treend, "Militaria Forums - Refuge of the Impotent", germanmilitariacollectibles.com - Militaria Blog, 2009

Here's our little Militaria Forum. Welcome!

Militaria Show Jargon

Planning on attending some militaria collector shows this spring? Well, you've got to be ready lo tackle the jargon, so you know what everyone else is talking about. You know, forewarned is forearmed? Yep. That's right. Even if you're an old hand in this hobby there's lots of new slang and catch phrases out there. You don't want to seem behind the times, do you? And if you're a beginning collector, well, you could very easily be lost and confused, This jargon was collected at various militaria collector shows around the US, so you know, after you master these phrases, you'll be right in step with everyone else.

To Buy or Not To Buy

I already saw that. Translation: Saw it; passed on it 'cause it was too expensive.

I passed on it. (Tone of vote implies it is not original.) Translation; If it's too expensive for my collection, so it's too expensive for yours.

It's not sexy enough. Translation: If it's not from a combat general who personally blew up 20 enemy tanks using egg grenades, pulling the pins with his bare teeth, during the Battle for Berlin, I'm not interested.

I'm only collecting; German Paratrooper items pre-1933. Translation: I'll be saving lots of $s. This stuff's so rare, I'll never find anything, but it makes me sound like an advanced collector anyway.

I might be interested. Translation: Only if you give it away.

I might be interested, but I don't want to pay the going rate. Translation: I'm super cheap and will buy it only if you give it away.

I pay more than anybody else. Translation: I want to pay less than everybody else.

It's not like the one I had. Translation: I don't think it's real.

It's not what I thought it would be. Translation: I krow I couldn't sell it for triple your price, so I'm not buying it.

It's not the condition I like. (of an ultra rare, rarely encountered piece). Translation: I'm broke.

I'll wait till a better one comes along. (also of an ultra rare, rarely encountered piece.)Translation: I'm still broke.

I know I'll find one in my price range someday. Translation: When l do, it won't be the best condition, but I'll have to be happy with it.

I'll be back. Translation: To see if you are ready to give it away at the end of the show.

I might be back. Translation: If I don't find one cheaper, either real or not, from someone else.

Would you take less ? Translation: Even if you say ''yes,'' I still have to think about it.

I'll have to think about it. Translation: It's sure fun to pretend to be interested, even if I have no intention of buying.

I don't need to get your list because I don't buy by mail order. Translation: I'm too cheap to pay a few bucks for your list. And besides, I hardly buy anything anyway.

There's a guy in the other row selling his for less. Translation: It's comparing apples & oranges, but I'm hopeful this ploy might work.

There 's a chip / scratch / dent / nick / moth nip / hole here. Translation: it's the best one I've ever seen, but I've got to get the price down.

Appraisal Service

I'm taking offers. Translation; I want a free appraisal and I have no intention of selling.

If you make a good offer... Translation; You'll never buy it; someone will always pay 5 cents more at the next show.

Well, I had a better offer. Translation: Someone paid 5 cents more.

I already have someone who is interested. Translation; But if you'll pay more, it's yours.

I brought it for a friend... to find out what it's worth. Translation: It belongs to this guy, but he's either too clever or too ashamed to admit it.

I'm just here to find out what it's worth for a friend. Translation: It's really mine and I'm hoping for a big hit.

Selling Jargon

I don't need the money. Translation: I don't need the money, so I'll charge twice what it's worth because I'm greedy.

Well I really need the money. Translation: I really need the money so I'll charge you twice what it's worth and pretend to give you a bargain.

Well, if you want a real one.. Translation: Be prepared to pay double the going price.

The last one sold for $$$ in auction 3 years ago. Translation: I want $$$ plus inflation coverage for those last 3 years.

I'll put it in auction, I'll get a lot more. Translation: l don't know what it is or what it's worth, but I'm hopeful.

I don't know exactly what it's worth, but I want X$. Translation: Knows down-to-the-penny the value.

I'll sell you this for half what I paid. Translation: Sells everything for half, but makes it up in volume.

I just want to get my money out of it. Translation: ...and make a huge profit.

All I want is what I have in it. Translation: If you believe that, I'll tell you another one.

I'm thinning out my collection. Translation #1: Because I want to fatten up my wallet at your expence. Translation #2: Maybe I can get some sucker to buy my mistakes.

Took it off a body myself. Translation: Never even been in the military. but it sounds good and sells a lot of worthless crap.

Had it made in a Saigon tailor shop back in .69. Translation: Wife made it yesterday on her Singer sewing machine and then dipped it in some oriental tea.

Brought it back myself from the ''Big One. Translation: Made it myself while serving two years on a morals charge in the state pen.

You can trust me. Translation: I'm the biggest crook in the show and I'll screw you out of your last penny.

Authentication

I don 't know What do you think? (Asked of 30 collectors at one show.) Translation: I wouldn't know a real one if it fell on me and besides, I've already made up my mind and just want you to verify I'm right.

Sure its real. Translation #1: It's as good as my word. Translation #2: You can see, touch, feel and smell it, so it has to be "real".

Nobody believes it. but I know it's real. Translation: Worst piece of crap you have ever seen.

I don 't think I've ever seen another one like that. Translation: Kiss of death. Once words gets around, real or not, you can't give that piece away.

I don't think I have ever seen a real one. Translation: And wouldn't know it if he had.

Well, it might be real... Translation #1: I want you to pass on it. so I can buy it. Translation #2: I want you to pass on that one, so I can sell you one of mine.

Gee. I'm not sure. Translation: I want you to pass on it, so I can buy it.

Would you look at this piece and tell me what you think? Translation #1 : I'd never spend a dime with you, but I highly value your free opinion. Translation #2: I'd never pay your slightly higher price for what appears to be the same item, when I might get what could be a real one cheaper from someone else and get your free opinion as well.

Justification Jargon

It's a great investment. Translation: In 5 years. you might get your money back... if you're lucky.

I save money on books so I can buy more for my collection. Translation: It gives me more money to spend on fakes.

I need it for my collection. Translation: I'll steal it if I have to.

I guarantee it. Translation: But you don't have my real name, telephone or address, so try finding me again!

I have a double your money back guarantee you're not satisfied with the piece. Translation: But you'll never see me again.

I traded for it. Translation: That was my mistake, now it can be your mistake.

I know a guy who'll pay more. Translation: You're my last straw and I'll do anything to make sure you buy it.

Name Dropping

___________said it's real. Translation: I'm asking your opinion for conversation's sake, but what you say really doesn't matter because I believe every thing __________ tells me.

I bought it from ___________. Translation: I'm proud to have paid too much.

I sold it to ______________. Translation: I'm proud to have given it away.

___________ has one in his collection. Translation: Wouldn't own it if you paid him.

_____________ has told it belonged to ____________. Translation: Made yesterday.

______________ says it's a fake. Translation: But I want it to be real, so please tell me it is.

__________________sells them for $X's. Translation: I want to get the same amount for this piece as he does for his.

I brought it to sell to _________________. Translation: But if you'll pay more, it's yours.

I bought it for _____________ and now he doesn't have the money. Translation: Knows nothing about it and wouldn't touch it if he did.

________________ only sells fakes. Translation: has great real pieces, but I'm jealous.

________________ only has real stuff. Translation: A true believer...

Let's show it to ______________ and see what he has to say. Translation: Hey, I can show it to ______________, get an authentication and free appraisal all in one shot.

Origins

It came from the family. Translation: Every faker has a family!

It came from a vet. Translation: It came from anybody who was never in the military.

My uncle/father/ grandfather/dog brought it back. Translation: I bought it, found out it's a fake and now want to push it off on you.

I have one just like it in my collection. Translation: Mine is real, this one's fake... but they do look somewhat alike.

Anonymous. Translation: I don't care to sign my name to this....

http://www.germanmilitariacollectibles.com/

Fakes, Repros and Such...

I still get e-mails from members asking me why I don't allow repros of our web site. Often they suggest that we set up a special section for the fakes, frauds, re-enactment supplies, or what ever they want to call them.

Believe me I considered it. I'm sure we could get more members and have a lot more ads. But then again, I would hate to take that business away from ebay...

I created this site for serious collectors, not for a bunch of bikers and screwballs who buy Nazi junk to stick of their jackets or like to "play" at collecting. And that's the way it's going to stay.

If you want fakes, you're on the wrong site. If you're a re-enactor, I wish you well, but you'll have to find your repro stuff elsewhere. If you want original Thrid Relics just click here.

We do everything we can to keep the fakes off the site. Unfortunately, some do pop up from time to time and we remove them as soon as we're sure they're bogus. The down side to this is we have made some people mad. Usually they thought the piece was original and they don't like to have someone tell them it's fake. They know they are probably going to loose money on it, and no one likes to hear that. That's the price we pay for trying the keep the site "clean". It's a real damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. We just have to live with it.

If you see something bad posted for sale let us know. I don't guarantee we'll remove it, but it will be brought to the attention of guys who have volunteered to help us police the site. They all know the hobby very well and the decision will rest with them. The buck has to stop somewhere.

Bob Treend

p.s. If you get the impression I'm fond of cartoons... you're right!

A Word to the Wise...

Some times an offer just seems to good to be true. When the piece is ultra rare or the price is such a bargain, that's when you have to be extra careful. Don't let your emotions carry you away. Do your homework, ask the opinion of experienced collectors who don't have a vested interest in the sale. And above all, use your instincts. Your first impression is usually the best.

German Militaria Collectibles

Marketing Militaria on the Web

"You can have the slickest web site on earth, with the greatest militaria ever seen, but if no one can find it, it don't mean dick!" *

Most knowledgable militaria dealers and collectors (...who know all the originals from the fakes; can quote the value of every piece to the penny, and know how to drive to every show in the country without a map) know zip when it comes to marketing on the net. To them, their web site is just a side line to their main business of buying and selling in person or on the phone. This is unfortunate because they are missing out on the greatest marketing tool since George Washington invented the dollar bill.

Don't get me wrong, I think every dealer should have a web site. It should provide basic info on the dealer such as his address and phone number, how he does business and what he deals in. And, he should offer some of his militaria on the site as well. This gives the dealer a "web presence" which is good P.R..

Building a web site is easy. If it's a simple one you might be able to do it yourself. If it's going to be more complicated, there are thousands of individuals and companies eager for your business. Either way, creating a web site and getting it up, is a real no-brainer.

Here's a typical scenario of what happens next.

Ok, let's say you've built your web site and it's up and running. Now what? You have to get the word out. So you email all your collector buddies and customers and tell them about it. You also trade links with some other sites. Maybe run an ad or two. Then you sit and wait... For the first couple of weeks you get quite a few "hits" as collectors look to see what you have. Then you notice that slowly you are getting less and less traffic, until finally, it drops off to a trickle. It doesn't always happen like this, only about 99% of the time.

What now? You're not getting any NEW customers. Why? The site is running; you've got great stuff for sale and besides, you're a nice guy... So why are things so slow? If you're imaginative at all, the next thing you do is check to see if people can find your site. So, you go to the search engines and start typing in search terms like , militaria, Nazi, Reich, daggers etc. etc. Each time you get a list of sites and you start looking down the list for your web site. After you get to about page 150 you figure that this is a waste of time. You can't find your site anywhere. Oh, it's there alright, probably buried down around page 1,243.... Great! What the heck good is that??? Answer: none. Research has shown that most people, after doing a search, will only look at the first few pages of sites. If you're site isn't on the first 3 or 4 pages, forget it! Hardly anyone is going to find you. And if you're buried down on page 1,243, you'll be lucky if you get a hit once every 10 years! (I've looked at all the militaria sites that are on the first couple of pages of results, using the most common search terms in our hobby. For the most part they are "grandfathered in". Which means they are there because they have been up so long, not beause they are doing anything magic... Search engines reward longevity.) Of course, your new site has none...

So, as things now stand, you have a shiny new web site, all your friends and old customers know about it and buy something occasionally. But, you're getting little or no new business. This sucks! You've spent money building this site; you're paying each month to host the darn thing; You spent a lot of time designing it and trying to make that stupid computer guy understand what you want. And for what? The business just ain't there. What should you do?

In order to get customers to the site you will have to do some "web promotion". Now, from what I've seen, most militaria sites mainly do this by trading links with their buddies. This works and will bring in some new customers. So, you sit at the computer for hours searching out good militaria sites which have a lot of links and you send them a nicely worded email offering a link trade. You get "some" responses and a few trades and you're off! Somewhat....

But still, thinking about those serach engines bugs you! You want YOUR site to be on the first couple of pages when people serach for your kind of militaria. The question is... How do you get there? Now the real fun starts.

Getting position on search engines is an art, as well as a science. The more heavily a category is represented on the net, the more difficult it is to "massage" the search engines to your benifit. There are bigger categories, but believe me, "militaria" is big enough.

Going into detail on how to make your site "search engine friendly" is beyond the scope of this little article, so I'll keep it short. First you have to "know" what to do. Then you have to do it. Every day you will need to work on the site. Checking your stats to see what collectors are searching for and "tweeking" the site to take advantage. Adding new content constantly. Seach engines don't like sites with stale information. You should add features to your site, like this blog, a newsletter, or a militaria forum, to help generate new content. You even need to go so far as to make sure certain characters don't appear in any of the URLs on your site, because they can lower your search engine rating! The "tweeking" can get into some very detailed work. And it goes on and on.... You don't just do these things once and forget it. You have to do them every day to keep on top of things. It takes time... and more time.

You can hire one of those so-called "web promotion companies" who promise to get you on a slew of search engines. They'll do just that, get your site on dozens of search engines... on page 1,243, or 1,242 if you're lucky. And besides most of those search engines don't mean a thing. There are only a hand full that are important. These "services" are a waste of money. You're really on your own.

So, in conclusion, if you spend time studying how the net works; improving and maintaining your site daily; constantly adding new content; massaging the search engines for advantage; and doing all those other little fun things that are required... you will have a successful militaria web site. Of course, you won't have time left to buy or sell any militaria.

Bob Treend

* An old saying I just made up. B.T.

Militaria Dealer Pricing

" The time has come, the Walrus said, to speak of many things, of sailing ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings. "

While reading through the 'Dealer Reports' I quite often come across the notation "Prices are too high" or "He charges too much." It was after thinking about this aspect of the reports that I decided to write a little paragraph or two about my pricing policies since I have been the subject of a number of similar complaints over the years and I believe my polices are probably typical although what follows is my personal and true method and philosophy about how I arrive at my prices for items which I offer for sale. While I can't speak for other dealers, I believe that this article might give the collector some insight into what goes into placing a sale or trade price on a piece.

I have been a collector of Imperial and Nazi militaria for over twenty years. I became interested in accumulating 'war relics' when a neigbor gave me two WWI helmets and a dagger. I was immediately hooked and began accumulating every single thing I could find. My personal approach to a piece was to then study the history behind it, so as to be able to learn the historic context in which it was placed. I found that this combined study of the history and the placing of a piece in its true context offered me a sense of fullfillment that was unmatched by other interests. Soon, however, a new problem developed. I began to duplicate material already in my collection and there was no way to avoid it. What would generally happen is someone would respond to my numerous ads which were scattered throughout the area I live in and offer me a bunch of stuff on which I would make him an offer. As often as not, when I got home and began thoroughly sorting the material, I would find one or two duplicates which were superfluous for my needs.

After a period of time during which similar scenes took place, I began selling off my excess and using the money to acquire new pieces. In this way, my personal collection grew substantially over a period of time and I found myself with more and more material which was unneeded. Gradually, I put together a 'Sale List' of items and sent them out to other collectors throughout the country. At this point, I was considered by other collectors as a dealer. But at this junction, two thoughts began to form in my mind and a decision had to be made very quickly. Was I to remain a 'Collector/Dealer' selling off my excess and continuing to look for other items or was I to try and become a full-time dealer, making all or the major part of my living selling militaria? A very detailed examination of these possibilities led me to an astounding discovery - if I tried to make a living by selling militaria full-time, I would have to begin to sell repros, since I could not guarantee a continuous supply of 'good' stuff and fluctuations in income could not be tolerated in a normal living enviroment. As an aside at this point, I would like to point out that this fact of life is still valid even today. If a dealer makes his total living from the sale of militaria, in the vast majority of cases he must also sell repros.

There are very few exceptions to this rule. This does not imply that the 'amateur' dealer doesn't sell repros, many of them do, but be especially wary of any dealer who makes his full-time living selling war relics. The chances are good that somewhere along the way he will try to move a bad piece on you.

(Editor's note: Please note that Bill has allowed that there are exceptions to the above and that he is not talking about the honest dealer who sells a repro as a repro.) Once I had decided not to become a full-time dealer, it was natural for me to begin to seriously consider where I wanted to go with my collecting. I decided that the common, everyday type of items that I was accumulating in boxes was not to my liking, so I began to specialise in the very rare and exotic pieces. When a call came through from a prospective seller, I would still rush out to find out what he had, but I would look more critically at his assortment and would buy only if one or two of the pieces were of an uncommon item. The remainder I would pass on or, if I were required to buy the lot to get the one piece I wanted, I would immediately call a few other collectors and sell them the remainders. In this manner, I slowly watched my collection change from a helter-skelter assortment of many similar items to a very refined, sophisticated collection of exotic pieces. Now I was faced with an entirely new problem - how to continue buying rare pieces which were rapidly escalating in value and still not deprive my family of a normal life. The answer was to begin to sell off some of my rarer pieces in order to re-cycle the money into new and more exotic items. The tone of my lists gradually under went a change towards the more expensive, exotic and one-of-a-kind items of interest to greatly advanced collectors (or those who wanted a single, fine, rare piece for the centerpiece of their own collections). It is, for the most part, this type of list which I currently send out to other collectors and this brings me to how I have established my prices.

Let's start with the simple basics. A man calls me to tell me that he has a number of pieces for sale. When I examine the items I find one or two that are of interest to me either as a collector or as a dealer willing to re-sell them. At this point, I must make an offer which is high enough for him to sell the item or items to me as opposed to calling in another dealer or collector. Once I arrive home with my find, I begin to sort and cull all the superfluous pieces out and grade them according to condition. Then I consult the lists of other dealers , throughout the world to see what similar pieces are selling for. I even consult the lists of the fraud merchants to see what they are getting for rip-off items.

Now I have an idea of what the gross profit on the entire transaction will be (selling prices less purchase price/gross). Let us assume for the sake of illustration that I have paid $100 for a collection of items that, when sold, will return me $400. This would indicate a gross profit of $300, which isn't a bad return. However, I am now faced with the selling of the items involved to make this profit. In order to accomplish this, I use two methods - I send out lists to subscribers and I attend militaria shows as a dealer. I charge $1.00 for a year's listings (generally three) of all the items which I am offering for sale.

This list consists of about eight pages of items and prices and costs me approximately $40.00 to print each issue. It currently costs me 20¢ per list to have our outstandingly efficient postal service send them to the subscribers, making a total cost per quarterly listing of $80.00. Since I mail a minimum of three lists per year, my yearly cost to tell potential buyers what I am offering is $240.00, which is $40.00 more than the subscribers pay for the lists. This amount also must be deducted from the Gross profit figure. Now, since no dealer ever sells every single item on his list, that means that he will carry items in stock for a period of time therefore keeping his original investment tied up longer. My own lists average about a 30% sale rate which is probably average. The unsold items are packed into cartons and loaded into my van and begin travelling with me on the week-ends to the gun and militaria shows throughout the area. It is not uncommon for me to drive 700 miles (round trip) to attend a major show and the cost of gasoline, food, and lodging plus the costs of tables must also be deducted from the rapidly dwindling gross profit figure mentioned earlier. For the past seven years that I have been keeping very accurate records, I find that I am actually losing money each year, but the loss is not nearly as great as it would be if I were not selling some pieces off to help defray my expenses. I would have enjoyed not having to sell off items from my own collection, but if I didn't, I wouldn't be able to continue this activity. I know that other collector/dealers must face the same problems, thus the temptation to deal in repros.

Another aspect of pricing which should be mentioned right here is the pricing established by the repro dealer. As an example, there are currently to be seen many ads offering so-called 'parts daggers' for sale in numerous collector's publications. No matter how you cut it, these daggers are phony. They were not assembled, let alone used, during the period they purport to belong to, and many have newly manufactured parts. If a phony dagger sells for $100 under these circumstances (and it will shortly become an"original" for a much higher price) how can anyone not justify a price of $150 for an undisputed original? The dealer knows, or should know, what his merchandise is worth on the open market. There is a very limited supply of good, original pieces and an ever-growing collector interest in them. This is the economic law of supply and demand in operation for all to see. The collectors are competing for the supply and are actually bidding against each other for the right of ownership. The dealer who bases his prices on what the market will bear is no different from any other merchant in any other business. If he is wrong the piece won't sell - if he is right someone will buy it. When someone complains to me that my prices are too high, I know immediately that he is willing to buy at a lower price but I can not readily shave my price that much and still cover the overhead that I am operating under. I can not lower my price (thereby increasing the over-all loss) just to be a nice guy. It is totally impractical to ask me to.

There is also the possibility that the buyer who would like a piece "if the price were lower" is actually thinking of buying the item as an investment rather than as an addition to his collection and, with the eventual thought of selling the piece, figures that few other collectors will buy it if he has to pay full price for it and then subsequently add a profit figure for himself before moving it. I personally am unable and unwilling to help him become a dealer at my expense.

In conclusion, I would like to state a rather pragmatic test to determine if a dealer's price is truly "too high"; does the item sell? If so, the price was not too high. If it doesn't sell (and the dealer doesn't lower the price) could that really mean that the dealer doesn't honestly want to part with the item and, in order for him to do so, the buyer will have to part with a pint of blood?

Good Collecting!

Editor's note: Many who are collectors only and do not 'deal' really do not know what a hassle it is to deal, especially through the mail. Many people get into dealing by being a collector. Dealing is a way to offset the cost of their own collections. Others simply enjoy the dealing itself and for those it would be the same if they were dealing in old car parts or antique horse shoe nails. For some it is a chosen profession. But whatever the motive behind a persons becoming a dealer, the aim is still the same - Profit!

If a dealer doesn't make a profit in some way, he can't continue to deal.As for prices, if you say that they are too high, don't buy. The prices will either go down or someone else will get the goodies. Personally, I would rather pay a little more for an item from a dealer that I can trust and know that I have a good item than to take a chance at a lower price and not know the dealer. William Ringler

William Ringler: "Dealer Pricing", "Military Collectors Association - Journal, 1975

Collecting on a Budget

Somewhere there is a line between "getting a good buy" and "ripping off the rube". Where that line lies is beyond the scope of this article. I'll let you decide, and determine which side you want to stay on....

I wrote this article 30 years ago. Times have changed, but I think most of the ideas are valid today. It would be interesting to see a follow-up on this written by one of you. If interested, just email me.


COLLECTING ON A BUDGET

Although most of us build our collections by trading with collectors and dealers, there are many in our fraternity who have been able to put together a very fine grouping of Nazi items by purchasing from noncollectors. Even at this late date there is a vast quantity of all types of militaria in the hands of vets, their families and friends. If you have never made any attempt to contact any of these people, you are perhaps missing out on some very good opportunities. There are many ways to go about finding the goodies.

First, and most obvious, is by asking around amoung your friends, relatives, co-workers etc. This won't take long to do, and before long you will know if there is anything out there, after that, it takes a little more work and effort. The best bet is to advertize in some of the local newspapers and neighborhood publications such as the trade sheets. I've been at this for quite some time and have met with some successes, and I can assure you that it has very definately been worthwhile. Over the years I have learned a couple of things about this type of collecting and I would like to pass on some tips to any of you who want to try it.

First and formost, NEVER NEVER use the word "NAZI" in an advertisement! That will guarantee some calls from screwballs and weird-o's! Also, I suggest you "buffer" your ad by requesting other types of militaria, whether you collect it or not. A good example is WANTED: War Souvenirs from Japan, Germany and Italy" or "U.S., Japanese and German war relics of all types wanted". By including the other countries you appear to be a military collector and not a "Nazi sympathizer". When you receive a phone call try to get as much information about the items as possible. Ask about where the caller got them and verify that they didn't come from the flea market, caus' if they did - they're probably going to be junk or fakes: Remember that you are talking to someone who probably knows nothing about this type of thing, so when the old lady on the phone tells you she has a "Nazi Colonel's cross with "Der Deutschen Mutter" on it, don't break into hilarious laughter. You are going to find that people have some strange ideas about these things and the best way to handle it is to take them seriously now and laugh later when you have the goodies.. After you have got enough information to determine that they have something worth going after, try to make an appointment to see it. It is very important to make the appointment as soon as possible, don't waste a lot of time on the phone getting more details, get them to let you come see it, and if it can be that same day, all the better. As the saying goes--strike while the iron is hot-- the longer you wait the less your chances. Many people will ask you about the value of items on the phone. My advise is NEVER EVER price an item before you have seen it, because the chances of misidentification are too great and that can blow it for you. If you thought it was a Knight's cross and its only a 2nd class IC, then you've made a fool of yourself and have to try to explain your "slight" error, which is almost impossible. When you visit the person with the goodies, be patient and if they want to tell war stories, let them, this will get you on a friendly basis. Offer NO information about the items, but if they ask, answer the questions with a minimum of info.. The more you tell them, the more they are going to think the stuff is worth, and I presume you will want to try to buy it as cheaply as possible. If there are several items, try to avoid priceing them individually and make an offer for the group. Of course it is better if you can get them to tell you what they want for the stuff, but you will find that they usually will tell you that they don't know anything about it and want you to make an offer. Naturally, I suggest you make that offer as low as possible, but try to make it high enough so they will accept your first offer. It is very bad to have to raise the offer because this will give them the idea that you are holding out on them and can make it even more difficult for you to pry the items loose. IF THEY EVER GET THE IDEA THAT THE ITEMS ARE WORTH SOME "REAL" MONEY" you're sunk. I don't wish to sound like a con-man but thats the way it works.

Some final thoughts: Always take cash, not checks, and when I make an offer I take the cash out of my wallet so they can see it (you sly devil you). Never show a special interest in any one particular item, look at all of them equally, if you stare too hard at one piece, they might decide to let you have the rest and keep the one you really want. If you are going to run a "display ad" the sports section is the best. Never mention another collector to them, try to give the impression that you're the only source of cash around. And finally, prepare yourself for a lot of useless phone calls. If you're lucky, you might get something good from one in every ten calls and something great in one in a hundred. Patience is what it takes, but if you hang in there and keep trying, something will eventually turn up and it will all have been worth it....

Bob Treend: "Collecting on a Budget". 1977, Der Gauleiter